Meet the Broker: Bernie Ryan

Today we meet Bernie Ryan, president of Direct Effect Media Services Inc. Ryan started there as a direct mail copywriter, but as his job evolved he shifted into list brokerage.

“I was writing copy but it got to the point where I was asking ‘what lists are you using?’ By 1995 or 1996 I was only doing list brokerage and no longer writing copy,” Ryan said.

He presently makes list recommendations for Adobe Systems Inc., Ektron Inc., Iron Speed Inc. and Specialized Products Co.

Ryan has worked in direct marketing for 17 years, and was previously a consultant in the high tech industry. He spends most of his time brokering e-mail list deals at the Encinitas, CA-based firm.

Ryan has observed firsthand how the growth in online media is changing the list business. Lead generation with Internet banner advertising and other online media are “morphing” list brokers to become more like media buyers, said Ryan.

Outside of work, he enjoys time at home “sitting around the table getting into political debates” with friends and family. He’s married and has twin sons, age 14. For relaxation he plays golf and works in his garden.

“I’m always planting something new, ripping something out and changing the flowers. Last weekend I tore out some bushes to plant some fruit trees,” he said.

What concerns list brokers the most about e-mail lists?

Rising e-mail list base prices, declines in e-mail open- and response rates and huge disparities in transmission fees are the biggest issues, according to Ryan.

“I deal mostly with trade publication e-mail lists that typically cost $400/M to $500/M and prices have been increasing slightly,” he noted.

Ryan said he encounters transmission fees ranging from $40/M to $120/M, yet no one has been able to explain to his satisfaction why there’s such a wide pricing disparity.

“I’ve even seen some e-mail lists with no additional transmission fees,” he added. “These fees are negotiable and as it turns out sometimes quite a bit.”

What’s most troubling to Ryan is the constant increase in spam. “If the e-mail list prices keep going up, while e-mail open rates and response rates are declining, I’m afraid the goose that laid the golden egg will be killed.”

Only a few years ago, e-mail open rates were typically 30% to 35% but now it’s generally closer to 20%, Ryan noted.

Can Spam e-mail list regulations, in his opinion, have done nothing to solve the growing problem, except to increase the costs associated with the legitimate use of e-mail lists, he said.

Can you tell me how a recent list deal you brokered turned out?

“I did one for a small company involving five lists and about 85,000 names. I found two lists that were not listed in SRDS or anywhere else—not represented by a manager,” Ryan said.

His client wanted to target a certain type of programmer. All the segmentation was available from a trade publication at a cost close to $500/M.

Ryan searched for lists not on the market that specifically targeted the desired audience without any additional segmentation needed—albeit for a much lower price.

When the test results were analyzed, it turned out the cost per lead generated from the trade magazine’s e-mail list was three times higher than the four other files.

“The magazine’s list bombed. It’s not going to included in with the orders for (list rental) continuations,” Ryan said.

Lists from more highly targeted and specialized newsletters and Web sites often outperform e-mail lists sourced from online surveys, based on his experience. “People who fill out questionnaires for access to Web sites are not wonderfully trustworthy,” he said.

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